Debate Vs. Link [Archive] - GfxJunk Digital Art & Design Community

fratey

09-30-2008, 07:11 PM

Of what time? come on atleast come with a decent statement :P[/b]
Any, and aLttP doesn't count.

The only game i can think of right now is, well not a game, but i think that the Mario Series has surpassed the Zelda series, the two game series are rivals and it is hotly contested that one is better than the other, and its very typical to say that mario only holds a candle to zelda, but its the only series that does. I havent played ocarina of time fully so i cant say what game is better than it but i like a lot of games more than it, even though i dont play video games anymore. Though in terms of legacy its Zelda v. Mario.[/b]
You could say that it has surpassed the series since it came first and was more revolutionary, it definitely has done more impact. However, that barely touches the point. Revolutionary doesn't mean better, after all.

Aaah now the topic makes sence to me :P

Zelda huh,.. well there are a lot of good games imo and it's hard to pick 1 as best. But games that could be in the same list as Zelda should be Pokemon and Mario. But the Final Fantasy, Tony Hawk Pro Skater, Elder Scrolls, Command & Conquer, Warcraft are also great imo :) it all depends on the genre.[/b]
Ah, which Pokémon, which Mario? I'm not talking about the series here.

Thrasher

09-30-2008, 07:14 PM

Pokemon Red and i am myself not a big fan of Mario tbh :P

GTA Vice City and The Elder Scrolls III Morrowind are also better imo :)

hellraid

09-30-2008, 07:15 PM

pokemon red to gold pwned
zelda has always been an awesome game (Love A Link to the Past)
also Super Mario 3 was awesome

Thrasher

09-30-2008, 07:18 PM

Back in the day i was addicted to Tekken 3, Final Fantasy 7 and thps2 :blush:

I'm so cute!

fratey

09-30-2008, 07:36 PM

Pokemon Red and i am myself not a big fan of Mario tbh :P[/b]
While revolutionary, yes, it lacked longetivity, sound, etc... Yet it was an amazing game. You could blame hardware - but how come the console Poké"men" weren't as good?

GTA Vice City[/b]
Very good game. Lackluster story line, barely any character development. Soundtrack? No. Graphics relative to its time? No. Creativity? Well, I think Vice City is better than SA, however... Some of the best missions in San Andreas were the casino heist, stealing a Harrier, motorbiking into a moving airplane and planting a bomb in it, flying to Liberty City to fight gun your way through Marco's Bistro (a cornerstone of the PS2 GTA games), parachuting onto the Hoover Dam to plant satchel charges on turbines inside of it, all the Catalina heists, the two San Fierro tanker missions, etc. What did Vice City do to chip in the creativity?
and The Elder Scrolls III Morrowind are also better imo :)[/b]
At times this sense of freedom is overwhelming, and attending to the minutiae can be tiresome. Not really. Zip. :mellow:

Splendid

09-30-2008, 07:58 PM

If you want to talk about revolutionary Mario Galaxy is more than any Zelda game.

fratey

09-30-2008, 08:34 PM

If you want to talk about revolutionary Mario Galaxy is more than any Zelda game.[/b]
Super Mario 64 was revolutionary. Galaxy wasn't. It merely expanded what was great with Super Mario 64... However, Galaxy was an amazing sequel.

Splendid

09-30-2008, 09:51 PM

GreNade

09-30-2008, 09:53 PM

THE revolutionary game in Real time strategy games is Age of Empires / Age of Kings. The AOE II was a real good sequel. I am talking about gameplay and variation in the game. AOE 3 and Age of mythology were both good graphical sequels but the gameplay wasn't as good as the AOE 2

o_O

09-30-2008, 10:10 PM

Neverwinter Nights, Pong and Tetris.

Splendid

09-30-2008, 10:16 PM

I see this conversation has turned into revolutionary games and i agree with O_o and grenade, but we are going a tad off topic, thanks to myself lol. So lets go back to what is better to Ocarina of Time. I think mario because of the reasons i explained, i like other games much much more but its just because i enjoy them more, and mario is the only one that has un biased evidence that i can present.

Gladiator

09-30-2008, 10:28 PM

Yeah, Mario Galaxy just sucked:) it is just not as it was with mario sunshine:) That game is great, and Ocarina of time is just great too:) Anyway, I just love games where you can like go your own way.
Where you have a lot of things you can achieve beside just ending it. And link, it isn't turned in revolutionary right?:P really what are they thinking, that they can change the subject in the LINK DEBATE topic?:S :lickme:

GreNade

09-30-2008, 10:31 PM

well i never played any of the mario's, i think they look stupid and very childish, just not my style and type of game :P

fratey

09-30-2008, 10:38 PM

Galaxy was revolutionary because it was the first game, especially in a mario series which tends to be 2d scrolling action, to do what it idid. It also transformed this platform game into more than a 2d scroller, im not saying it was bad but it made a huge leap, in terms of gaming, and Mario initself.[/b]
Have you even played Super Mario 64? It did everything you just said.
Id say Zelda and Mario are hand in hand when it comes to the most recognized and respected games. each have their advances and each have their flaws. I dont play video games anymore so i dont really care, but i think Mario has the upper hand because it has been used in many different games that dont follow the main story line. Ex. MarioKart, and Super Smash Bros. Mario is more versatile. Link has been in Super smash bros and soul calibur i think but i think mario is more versatile thus giving the Mario series an upper hand. In terms of which game is better thats all up to the individual, but in terms of legacy i think mario has a sliglty greater one.[/b]
Again, you are talking about the series. I'm personally discussing the game. Step down to the same wave length, please.
THE revolutionary game in Real time strategy games is Age of Empires / Age of Kings. The AOE II was a real good sequel. I am talking about gameplay and variation in the game. AOE 3 and Age of mythology were both good graphical sequels but the gameplay wasn't as good as the AOE 2[/b]
Yes. Now, what is your point with your post? <_<

Neverwinter Nights[/b]
A game that identifies as a RPG but is more continous combat? Obvious flaw right there, no dice.
Pong[/b]
I doubt you would have more fun playing Pong than OoT.
Tetris.[/b]
Read above.
well i never played any of the mario's, i think they look stupid and very childish, just not my style and type of game :P[/b]
Then maybe you should both rethink and reconsider.

GreNade

09-30-2008, 10:45 PM

Nah. I've grown out of games actualy, all cuz of my girlfriend :P

Splendid

09-30-2008, 10:47 PM

Im talking about the legacy because Arguing about what game is better is silly, i like Mario and the 6 golden coins simply because it is more fun than ocarina of time, someone else might like tetris more. I could say the graphics were better for ocarina therefore it is a better game, but no matter what it ends up with a fallacy.

fratey

09-30-2008, 10:56 PM

Peryton

09-30-2008, 11:13 PM

Is this debate leading to another "bitch slapping" conversation ? :banana:

Splendid

09-30-2008, 11:15 PM

How are you not talking about opinions of a game, you are saying what is better than Ocarina of time, i was talking exactly about the fact that talking about this is talking about the opinions of games

o_O

09-30-2008, 11:45 PM

Pong and tetris are seriously addictive. Two of my favourite games...

And there isn't much to discuss. This is a 100% subjective question, the only way to "discuss" this is to attack eachother...

No thank you :)

Oh, NWN is the best game EVAH. I _personally_ think so, at least. That's good enough for me...

Thrasher

10-01-2008, 12:22 AM

While revolutionary, yes, it lacked longetivity, sound, etc... Yet it was an amazing game. You could blame hardware - but how come the console Poké"men" weren't as good?

Very good game. Lackluster story line, barely any character development. Soundtrack? No. Graphics relative to its time? No. Creativity? Well, I think Vice City is better than SA, however... Some of the best missions in San Andreas were the casino heist, stealing a Harrier, motorbiking into a moving airplane and planting a bomb in it, flying to Liberty City to fight gun your way through Marco's Bistro (a cornerstone of the PS2 GTA games), parachuting onto the Hoover Dam to plant satchel charges on turbines inside of it, all the Catalina heists, the two San Fierro tanker missions, etc. What did Vice City do to chip in the creativity?

At times this sense of freedom is overwhelming, and attending to the minutiae can be tiresome. Not really. Zip. :mellow:[/b]

Pokemon was made for a GameBoy and performed with such a minimum hardware as the most succesfull game till now i believe and not that the graphics where bad wasn't a think to blame. It actually made the game even better since it kept it simple :) Imo it was wayy better then your Zelda game.

Character Development? What about the house you started to own, the cars, the people who protect you? The real character development is in the person who plays the game ;) the whole thing with stats or levels is imo not suitable for such a games then it becomes a Sim just like SA i think it doesn't adds anything positive to it :). They could've done more creative things but the story kept it all very well intact and i also loved the whole style around it and that it's a lot bigger then most general players will ever realise :) Just try to get all the cars in the carshop by example ;).

Morrowind is a game that you love or hate, it is true you sometimes have to walk alot (also depends on your Character and Guilds you pick) however that shows also the world your in, the've solved this problem in Oblivion with the horse, but i played Oblivion only a few times so not enough to say it's better or worse :).

I think that Zelda it's colours are great but that's it just a bit too kiddo for me and there is also stuff in it that is boring like the fishing part :/ i hated that. (If i am now talking about the same Zelda game as you)

Splendid

10-01-2008, 12:29 AM

I think you might be talking about the cartoon version which was blithering shit.

o_O

10-01-2008, 12:34 AM

Morrowind is a game that you love or hate, it is true you sometimes have to walk alot (also depends on your Character and Guilds you pick) however that shows also the world your in, the've solved this problem in Oblivion with the horse, but i played Oblivion only a few times so not enough to say it's better or worse :).[/b]
they solved it by adding fast travel and a huge arrow so you will always fin what you are looking for. Ruins the fun imo :(

And yeah, morrowind is an awesome game. Just below my top 3 games.:)

Mehhht

10-01-2008, 12:43 AM

Okay, if you mean which game in my opinion has surpassed it, you can't "debate" that. If you mean what game has surpassed OoT in public opinion, reviews, ect. I would say none. It seems to be considered the best game on a lot of credible sites. I don't think I have seen a "top 100 games" and not seen it in the top 5.

But some could say "Halo 3 has surpassed Zelda, because it has sold more copies" but I would disagree because people don't see Halo 3 as a groundbreaking, revolutionary game. OoT was.

Thrasher

10-01-2008, 12:51 AM

what's with the Oot? :rolleyes:

Mehhht

10-01-2008, 01:55 AM

The Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time

JD.

10-01-2008, 03:57 AM

Get a better debate topic and ill contribute :)

Danta

10-01-2008, 04:09 AM

fianl Fantasys, the original ones i would suggest were kinda groundbreaking.

Then the later ones with their graphics are unbelivable.

Any game that my brother can play fror 160 hours and not finish is a good game, note he is not bored with it yet either.

I personally like alot of games.

OoT was a really good game. but it is not the best game ever imo. Final Fantasy's, Eye of the beholder and elder scrolls games would have to be right up there with the best of them.

Splendid

10-01-2008, 05:05 AM

On sites mario galaxy has surpassed it.

fratey

10-01-2008, 11:31 AM

On sites mario galaxy has surpassed it.[/b]
If you mean "by reviews", no. Metacritic has given OoT an average score of 99, and it counts the average of 20 reviews, including the lame-ass 90 IGN (or something) gave it. Galaxy got a 97 on Metacritic. Metacritic = many reviewers. Catch my drift?
Next?

Get a better debate topic and ill contribute :)[/b]
Oh, this seems good enough, because there's like 35 replies within a day and more to come. Sounds like a good place to start.

Pokemon was made for a GameBoy and performed with such a minimum hardware as the most succesfull game till now i believe[/b]
Oh, hardware doesn't mean shit. If so, I'd say all PS3 games are the best - you don't see me saying that.
and not that the graphics where bad wasn't a think to blame. It actually made the game even better since it kept it simple :)[/b]
What I said, was that graphics didn't mean jack as the 3D pokémon games are almost always worse.
Character Development? What about the house you started to own, the cars, the people who protect you? The real character development is in the person who plays the game ;) the whole thing with stats or levels is imo not suitable for such a games then it becomes a Sim just like SA i think it doesn't adds anything positive to it :).[/b]
Yeah, I can really FEEL the sorrow of Ken Rosenberg as he gets extorted. I feel SO SAD when Tommy gets backstabbed by Haitians. 99% of the people are nameless in Vice City, and the rest lack depth. They are completely flat.
Let's compare a non-vital NPC, Talon, to Ken Rosenberg who has a major point in the game.
When a non-vital NPC has much more depth than a major character, I really wonder if the character development is so good...
They could've done more creative things but the story kept it all very well intact and i also loved the whole style around it and that it's a lot bigger then most general players will ever realise :) Just try to get all the cars in the carshop by example ;).[/b]
Drive here, shoot there, the end. Bombs Away and such were creative missions - else it was minigames that had the creativity.

Morrowind is a game that you love or hate[/b]
Exactly - and therefore, it simply can't be better on a non-opinion basis, since many people have grounds for disliking it.,

I think that Zelda it's colours are great but that's it just a bit too kiddo for me and there is also stuff in it that is boring like the fishing part :/ i hated that. (If i am now talking about the same Zelda game as you)[/b]
I doubt it, because I can't see shadow temple, spirit temple, the Well, or Water Temple as kiddo as all.

How are you not talking about opinions of a game, you are saying what is better than Ocarina of time, i was talking exactly about the fact that talking about this is talking about the opinions of games[/b]
I'm talking about OoT as a better game as fact. You keep talking about the mario series, whereas I try to move away from the series subject. Stop pushing that subject at it is not the point of the thread - I'm not here to play devil's advocate.

Peryton

10-01-2008, 11:41 AM

The subject is kinda dul ...Zelda and mario...Those are baby games...I played it when I was 8 years old for gods sakes

Dain

10-01-2008, 11:47 AM

Oot is a great game, still got the good old n64 with it :P

compared to other games though, it hasn't got alot of replay value.

games such as morrowind you could start all over again and be a different class ect.

really depends on the games you like though, i really loved the total war series great fun with battles with 2k people fighting xD

(eh would say more but i gotta go eat dinner! :P )

oh.... bird pirates.... very addictive xD

Danta

10-01-2008, 12:36 PM

has anyone played, battlefied 1942, now that is a grea multiplayer game... it is hard to decide what is the best ame ever, as it has appeal to alot of differnat people.

I reckon i could preach to you how Tony Hawk Skateboarding is like the best game ever, cause i played it heaps as a kid.

But this would not be true.

and According to gamespot, which i kinda love... it really is a great site.

OoT gets a 10
Grand Theft Auto 4 gets a 10

So really. Seeing as they are in completely differant genres i would have to conclude that they are both some one of the best games their niche group has ever had to conted with.

Done and Done XD

Oh yeah - and the game of the year for 2007 "Portal" was groundbreaking in terms of its design. The puzzles it created were unbeliveable, well you would hope so for a game which take up 25GB or sth crazzy.

.R-M

10-01-2008, 12:55 PM

FFX Is better imo :)

fratey

10-01-2008, 01:52 PM

The subject is kinda dul ...Zelda and mario...Those are baby games...I played it when I was 8 years old for gods sakes[/b]
Zelda, baby game? LOL
http://images.wikia.com/ssb/images/a/a8/Redeadssbm_copy.jpg
http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda06/Enemies/Wallmaster.jpg
etc...
has anyone played, battlefied 1942, now that is a grea multiplayer game... it is hard to decide what is the best ame ever, as it has appeal to alot of differnat people.

I reckon i could preach to you how Tony Hawk Skateboarding is like the best game ever, cause i played it heaps as a kid.

But this would not be true.

and According to gamespot, which i kinda love... it really is a great site.

OoT gets a 10
Grand Theft Auto 4 gets a 10

So really. Seeing as they are in completely differant genres i would have to conclude that they are both some one of the best games their niche group has ever had to conted with.

Done and Done XD

Oh yeah - and the game of the year for 2007 "Portal" was groundbreaking in terms of its design. The puzzles it created were unbeliveable, well you would hope so for a game which take up 25GB or sth crazzy.[/b]
Yet, GTA 4 is so ridiculously overhyped it's not even funny. Just by checking metacritic and then what the customers think, and you have what I mean.

I reckon i could preach to you how Tony Hawk Skateboarding is like the best game ever, cause i played it heaps as a kid.[/b]
Oh; I don't want preaching, I want solid facts or discussion. So far no one has even tried to give me either of those in this thread.

FFX Is better imo :)[/b]
This is the debate section, not "Post your favorite game" thread. Try again, or simply get out, that's the rules.

.R-M

10-01-2008, 02:12 PM

Ok, FFX is better because its longer, better graphics, better storyline,the characters are a lot cooler and theres just so much to do. I've been playin for almost 160 hours and i haven't done it all.
Orcarina of Time is too short and pretty easy tbh, the hardest thing on it is to get the big goron sword. On the Subject of Zelda, Majoras Mask is the best, there's just so much more to do and the bosses are alot harder.

fratey

10-01-2008, 04:45 PM

Ok, FFX is better because its longer[/b]
Very nice analogy - it's longer, therefore it's better.

better graphics[/b]
I sure do hope the graphics are better, seeing as it was released 3 years later on a sixth generation console.

better storyline[/b]
Yeah, that definitely isn't true at all. Some giant snail called Sin invades the world and a guy starts playing a ball game underwater without drowning, then he's just a dream and nothing ever happened.

the characters are a lot cooler[/b]
Again, that's even more of an opinion than everything else you've been blabbering about. I can't debate about your opinions, however I can debate against the arguments.

and theres just so much to do. I've been playin for almost 160 hours and i haven't done it all.[/b]
Then hurry or something - You're basically saying "FFX is long". I haven't argued against that.

Orcarina of Time is too short and pretty easy tbh[/b]
"Orcarina" of time is easy, yes, but it's not short. On the second, third, fourth, fifth playthrough it's short compared to FFX, but that's because FFX is basically turn-based, and most time is spent viewing the obnoxious spell animations and walking around.

On the Subject of Zelda, Majoras Mask is the best, there's just so much more to do and the bosses are alot harder.[/b]
Ha, that's your opinion. I find Majora's Mask the better game, yet a bit more than half prefer OoT. I'm not going to play devil's advocate on this one.

FFX couldn't even outdo FF7, which was released on an inferior console four years earlier.

Zach

10-01-2008, 10:19 PM

This is stupid. Why would you debate which game was the best? Gameplay and graphics have two very different levels of importance among people, so the fact that everything is based off of opinion makes this thread worthless. You officially fail and I win the debate.

fratey

10-01-2008, 10:24 PM

This is stupid. Why would you debate which game was the best?[/b]
Why? I need practice. ;)[/b]
so the fact that everything is based off of opinion makes this thread worthless.[/b]
So you're saying that Daikatana is as good as, let's say... Oblivion or Half-Life?
You officially fail and I win the debate.[/b]
Because you come in here trolling? Give this man a medal.

Zach

10-01-2008, 10:41 PM

This is not a debate! People can't do anything except for throw their opinions out there. There are no facts. I personally think games such as Mario Party and Star Fox are far better than a lot of games made today. Does that mean I'm right? No, because I can not back up my opinion with facts because of the gameplay-versus-graphics opinion. Debates take peoples' own opinions and allow them to back them up with facts supporting their opinion until one side overwhelms the other. So tell me exactly, how can you practice debating on something that is not DEBATABLE? It's nothing more than arguing.

fratey

10-01-2008, 11:08 PM

This is not a debate! People can't do anything except for throw their opinions out there. There are no facts.[/b]
Oh yes, it IS possible. I can dig up recent examples too, if you'd like. In fact, check the bottom of this post.
I personally think games such as Mario Party and Star Fox are far better than a lot of games made today. Does that mean I'm right? No, because I can not back up my opinion with facts because of the gameplay-versus-graphics opinion.[/b]
However, there are obviously different levels of gaming. Even comparing Daikatana or the likes to... almost any other game out there, is borderline to heresy.
Debates take peoples' own opinions and allow them to back them up with facts supporting their opinion until one side overwhelms the other. So tell me exactly, how can you practice debating on something that is not DEBATABLE? It's nothing more than arguing.[/b]
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/n64-ze...say-thread.html (http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/n64-zelda/81304-ocarina-time-isnt-good-people-say-thread.html)
These people succeeded quite well with the undebatable.

Zach

10-02-2008, 02:31 AM

They really didn't. It all came down to preference from what I read, which just isn't debating.

Splendid

10-02-2008, 02:45 AM

Metacritic, alright, good point.

Still, you said that you arent here to play devils advocate.

Whats the point of a debate topic if not to play devils advocate, thats the whole fun in it. you arent here to agree with people......

This topic itself demeans the point, and the word itself, of a debate. What will this change, you are just trying to show everyone how good you are at arguing. That is just silly if there is nothing reaasonable to argue about.

fratey

10-02-2008, 07:47 AM

Metacritic, alright, good point.

Still, you said that you arent here to play devils advocate.
Whats the point of a debate topic if not to play devils advocate, thats the whole fun in it. you arent here to agree with people......[/b]
Oh, I do it a lot, just that I'm not going to argue about Majora's Mask against Ocarina of Time. I cannot compare two things I love - However, if I would hate Majora's Mask, I would definitely consider it. It's impossible or extremely hard to argue about equal matters.

This topic itself demeans the point, and the word itself, of a debate. What will this change, you are just trying to show everyone how good you are at arguing. That is just silly if there is nothing reaasonable to argue about.[/b]
Then start arguing, I find this boring. I'm not going to discuss random, moot points, so try the rest of my post.

Splendid

10-03-2008, 03:45 AM

Thats not an analogy man, thats deducing something, or a false dichotomy...... (at what link said in response to rm.)

Your not going to discuss random moot points?!?!?!?!? You are getting a little confused that was the whole topic and just because your wrong doesnt mean you have to turn away from disproving it, but ok i guess it is off topic ill give you that.

If i was to combine you and rev we would have a GFXjunk billoreilly, whom im sure you love to watch.

My point is that this topic is nonsensical, but saying that i guess i shouldnt be part of it.

Cheers.

JD.

10-03-2008, 05:23 AM

How can anyone prove that no game has surpassed OoT? It is an argument based on opinion. You and the rest of the linkfanclub could say none have, however if you ask someone else they may have varying opinions. This debate is one that has no conclusions, except the fact that there is no set answer to the question.

I would say that Mario Galaxy or any of the original Pokémon series have surpassed OoT, on basic grounds that i believe they were more popular, more addicting, more fun to play and had more effect on the people that played them, as in they were more long-lasting.

fratey

10-03-2008, 07:59 AM

My point is that this topic is nonsensical, but saying that i guess i shouldnt be part of it.[/b]
Seeing as you first kept to the topic, then you started ranting about other things and completely ignored the topic.

JD, I'll have a reply when I get home, bus is going away >>

JD.

10-03-2008, 09:36 AM

Look forward to it ;D

fratey

10-03-2008, 09:37 AM

had more effect on the people that played them, as in they were more long-lasting.[/b]
Like that girl that thought she was a pokémon and jumped out of the window? She was ~5 years old.

JD.

10-03-2008, 09:42 AM

Like that girl that thought she was a pokémon and jumped out of the window? She was ~5 years old.[/b]

That comment makes no difference, there were plenty of other pokémon fans who enjoyed the game for years through their childhood, there will always be a minority of miss-haps in society whatever the subject may be.

fratey

10-03-2008, 09:45 AM

That comment makes no difference, there were plenty of other pokémon fans who enjoyed the game for years through their childhood, there will always be a minority of miss-haps in society whatever the subject may be.[/b]
You could say the same about OoT. If amount of people playing a game decided how good it is, then we could say that WoW, Starcraft, and Gaia are like the best games ever made. You don't see anyone claiming that, do you.

o_O

10-03-2008, 10:13 AM

You could say the same about OoT. If amount of people playing a game decided how good it is, then we could say that WoW, Starcraft, and Gaia are like the best games ever made. You don't see anyone claiming that, do you.[/b]
i would say starcraft is better game than OoT. There you have it, my opinion. And the sad thing is that you cant debate it... Because this debate was silly from the start. More of a "let me hear your opinion, so i can bash them afterwards"-thread

fratey

10-03-2008, 01:18 PM

i would say starcraft is better game than OoT. There you have it, my opinion. And the sad thing is that you cant debate it... Because this debate was silly from the start. More of a "let me hear your opinion, so i can bash them afterwards"-thread[/b]
I'm not bashing anyone's opinion, I'm arguing your facts, but since there's a lack of them, I'm arguing claims.
If you want me to post why OoT is better - There's a lot of games to compare OoT to, but there's only one OoT to compare games to. So, perhaps you better argue your point because you are doing nothing but trolling.

o_O

10-03-2008, 03:39 PM

I'm not bashing anyone's opinion, I'm arguing your facts, but since there's a lack of them, I'm arguing claims.
If you want me to post why OoT is better - There's a lot of games to compare OoT to, but there's only one OoT to compare games to. So, perhaps you better argue your point because you are doing nothing but trolling.[/b]
Whether a game is good or not is only based on ones personal opinions. And you know what? That is a fact.

You think OoT is the best game. And it is! For you. But not for me... If you get my point...

JD.

10-03-2008, 04:30 PM

If amount of people playing a game decided how good it is, then we could say that WoW, Starcraft, and Gaia are like the best games ever made. You don't see anyone claiming that, do you.[/b]

I didnt mention anything about the amount of people who played the games having an effect on how good they are.

fratey

10-03-2008, 05:42 PM

Whether a game is good or not is only based on ones personal opinions. And you know what? That is a fact.

You think OoT is the best game. And it is! For you. But not for me... If you get my point...[/b]
waitwaitwait
A game or not is good only on personal opinions? Slow down a bit here...
So you are saying that
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/82/Daikatanabox.jpg
this heap of shit
is even comparable to
http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/amg/games/drg000/g007/g00772t7s4t.jpg
this?

:mellow:
I didnt mention anything about the amount of people who played the games having an effect on how good they are.[/b]
Doesn't make the post invalid, now does it?

o_O

10-03-2008, 05:58 PM

for some people, yes.

fratey

10-03-2008, 06:47 PM

for some people, yes.[/b]
Hahahahaha.

Sean

10-03-2008, 07:03 PM

Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap!! Wish i had a read of the first post.

o_O

10-03-2008, 07:06 PM

Hahahahaha.[/b]
Good point. You won this debate :)

fratey

10-03-2008, 07:16 PM

Good point. You won this debate :)[/b]
You're focusing on opinions, as you see all games as equal.

o_O

10-03-2008, 07:26 PM

You're focusing on opinions, as you see all games as equal.[/b]
I dont. Not at all. I have my own opinion about what is the best game ever. And that is NWN. Yey

Besides, i never liked the pokemon games... much

fratey

10-03-2008, 07:35 PM

I dont. Not at all. I have my own opinion about what is the best game ever. And that is NWN. Yey

Besides, i never liked the pokemon games... much[/b]
Okay, so you have an opinion of which game you like.
Now, what does that matter with when you are basically saying that Daikatana is equal to X game here, because "everyone has different opinions"? I call that, a crock of bullshit.

o_O

10-03-2008, 07:39 PM

Okay, so you have an opinion of which game you like.
Now, what does that matter with when you are basically saying that Daikatana is equal to X game here, because "everyone has different opinions"? I call that, a crock of bullshit.[/b]
Errr, what i meant is that different people have different opinions. And some people would prefer Daikatana over Pokemon. A game is good if YOU think it is good. Was that hard to understand? >_>

end of discussion *leaving this thread*

fratey

10-03-2008, 08:16 PM

Errr, what i meant is that different people have different opinions. And some people would prefer Daikatana over Pokemon. A game is good if YOU think it is good. Was that hard to understand? >_>

end of discussion *leaving this thread*[/b]
You've ignored what I said. I know people have different opinions - yet, there's still different levels of game. You're basically insulting good games if you compare them to Daikatana.

o_O

10-03-2008, 08:49 PM

You've ignored what I said. I know people have different opinions - yet, there's still different levels of game. You're basically insulting good games if you compare them to Daikatana.[/b]
Ignored what you have said? o_O

Anyway, got a little gift for you.

http://i33.tinypic.com/11gom02.png

Hope you like :)

fratey

10-03-2008, 10:32 PM

Ignored what you have said? o_O

Anyway, got a little gift for you.

http://i33.tinypic.com/11gom02.png

Hope you like :)[/b]
thank you, thank you.
And, just as a backup, if you aren't listening to me I am certain you're not listening to yourself either kind sir

end of discussion *leaving this thread*[/b]

go play daikatana and you'll see my point

o_O

10-03-2008, 10:49 PM

I haven't said daikatana is a good game. I said that people got different opinions, and there are people who would rather play daikatana than pokemon. Besides, i think most people would agree on that daikatana is a bad game. But when comparing some excellent games (NWN, OoT, Morrowind, etc etc), it is all about personal opinions if you are going to pick the best game of all. Unless you just look at the reviews and base your opinions on that.

Oh, go play big rigs. it is called the worst game ever, but i think i have played worse game actually... if you see my point.

fratey

10-04-2008, 12:22 AM

I haven't said daikatana is a good game. I said that people got different opinions, and there are people who would rather play daikatana than pokemon. Besides, i think most people would agree on that daikatana is a bad game. But when comparing some excellent games (NWN, OoT, Morrowind, etc etc), it is all about personal opinions if you are going to pick the best game of all. Unless you just look at the reviews and base your opinions on that.[/b]
NWN or Morrowind has never been called the best games ever. ;p

Oh, go play big rigs. it is called the worst game ever, but i think i have played worse game actually... if you see my point.[/b]
yes.

o_O

10-04-2008, 12:25 AM

NWN or Morrowind has never been called the best games ever. ;p[/b]
yes, they both have. But not by your ordinary reviewers :rolleyes:

Zach

10-04-2008, 03:40 AM

Jesus, Link does not understand what we're trying to say.

fratey

10-04-2008, 12:33 PM

Jesus, Link does not understand what we're trying to say.[/b]
That this debate is useless?
This thread has 76 replies now, and not even a tenth of those replies have been about your point. By this, we can conclude that no one or very few agree with you.
yes, they both have. But not by your ordinary reviewers :rolleyes:[/b]
...And games like UT and OoT have been called the best games ever, BOTH my ordinary reviewers and your not so ordinary reviewers ;)

o_O

10-04-2008, 01:32 PM

...And games like UT and OoT have been called the best games ever, BOTH my ordinary reviewers and your not so ordinary reviewers ;)[/b]
Hundreds of games have gotten the "best game ever"-award by fans. And the percentage of people thinking OoT is the best game ever is very low. Now, that is quite inaccurate, correct? There is absolutely no way you can "measure" what the best game, as there are people who love a game, but the same game could be hated by others. So stop bitching about reviews. The reviewers make only a very, very, very small amount of all the gamers in the world...

If your thinking was correct, there is probably a game out there which is not hated by so many, and therefore it is the best game.

fratey

10-04-2008, 01:44 PM

Hundreds of games have gotten the "best game ever"-award by fans.[/b]
Yet few have got it from critics and fans alike, and still retain a low percentile of negative voices.
And the percentage of people thinking OoT is the best game ever is very low. Now, that is quite inaccurate, correct?[/b]
Yes, that is incorrect, as the percentage of people that think OoT is the best game ever is relatively high.
There is absolutely no way you can "measure" what the best game, as there are people who love a game, but the same game could be hated by others.[/b]
Who hates OoT.
So stop bitching about reviews. The reviewers make only a very, very, very small amount of all the gamers in the world...[/b]
I'm not, but since you put reviewers into perspective, I felt like adding that in.

If your thinking was correct, there is probably a game out there which is not hated by so many, and therefore it is the best game.[/b]
^
Who hates OoT.

o_O

10-04-2008, 01:59 PM

The percentage of gamers who think OoT is the best game ever is most likely under 1%.

And there are A LOT of people who think OoT is silly and childish... Like some people in this thread.

Besides, I am starting to get a little annoyed of people claiming their favourite game is the best ever. Everybody has their own way of turning their game into the best...

fratey

10-04-2008, 02:25 PM

The percentage of gamers who think OoT is the best game ever is most likely under 1%.[/b]
I actually doubt this statement.

And there are A LOT of people who think OoT is silly and childish... Like some people in this thread.[/b]
And, of those, A LOT haven't played the game.

Besides, I am starting to get a little annoyed of people claiming their favourite game is the best ever. Everybody has their own way of turning their game into the best...[/b]
OoT is not my favorite game.

o_O

10-04-2008, 02:27 PM

OoT is not my favorite game.[/b]
Do you think it is the best game ever made?

fratey

10-04-2008, 02:32 PM

Do you think it is the best game ever made?[/b]
Not specifically that, just that I haven't seen any game surpass it.

o_O

10-04-2008, 02:35 PM

Not specifically that, just that I haven't seen any game succeed it.[/b]
Then why is it not your favourite game? o_O

Zach

10-04-2008, 02:50 PM

That this debate is useless?
This thread has 76 replies now, and not even a tenth of those replies have been about your point. By this, we can conclude that no one or very few agree with you.[/b]
So what you're saying is that quantity always proves beyond a reasonable doubt? How many people believe in Scientology? By this, we can conclude that Scientology is a valid "religion."

fratey

10-04-2008, 03:30 PM

So what you're saying is that quantity always proves beyond a reasonable doubt? How many people believe in Scientology? By this, we can conclude that Scientology is a valid "religion."[/b]
It is a valid religion - If it is good or not is debatable.

Then why is it not your favourite game? o_O[/b]
Because there are other games I prefer? Best doesn't automatically mean favorite.

o_O

10-04-2008, 04:29 PM

Because there are other games I prefer? Best doesn't automatically mean favorite.[/b]
In this case, it does.

fratey

10-04-2008, 06:41 PM

In this case, it does.[/b]
Yet I said it didn't. You need to learn how to play ball.

o_O

10-04-2008, 06:44 PM

Yet I said it didn't. You need to learn how to play ball.[/b]
Ok ok. Crysis is the best game. It has the best graphics. No doubt about that (OK, there are some other games with awesome graphics as well ...). At least that is the most objective view when considering what the best game is.

fratey

10-04-2008, 06:54 PM

Ok ok. Crysis is the best game. It has the best graphics. No doubt about that (OK, there are some other games with awesome graphics as well ...). At least that is the most objective view when considering what the best game is.[/b]
Ah, besides its shitty and uninspiring storyline, good but not fantastic gameplay, very flat characters, no character evolvement (from the already flat characters), melodramatic dialogue, the totally outrageous alien ship part near the middle of the game, and the vegetative end, not to mention numerous bugs and other issues, it might very well be one of the best games ever.

o_O

10-04-2008, 06:59 PM

Ah, besides its shitty and uninspiring storyline, good but not fantastic gameplay, very flat characters, no character evolvement (from the already flat characters), melodramatic dialogue, the totally outrageous alien ship part near the middle of the game, and the vegetative end, not to mention numerous bugs and other issues, it might very well be one of the best games ever.[/b]
All that other stuff is subjective. There is no answer to what the best game is, there is no end of this debate. Find a better topic, which most people (the majority) could actually agree on in the end...

Ok? End of debate? Draw? D:

fratey

10-04-2008, 07:18 PM

All that other stuff is subjective. There is no answer to what the best game is, there is no end of this debate. Find a better topic, which most people (the majority) could actually agree on in the end...

Ok? End of debate? Draw? D:[/b]
There's both a subjective and an objective viewpoint - everything I listed was subjective, and I've yet to get a subjective response from either you, or anyone else. It was possible at other sites - why not here?

o_O

10-04-2008, 07:24 PM

There's both a subjective and an objective viewpoint - everything I listed was subjective, and I've yet to get a subjective response from either you, or anyone else. It was possible at other sites - why not here?[/b]
What should I say? That I personally think OoT is great game, but there are games that are better. Proves that OoT is not the best game ever, as there are tons of others who share this opinion... I win.

fratey

10-04-2008, 07:50 PM

What should I say? That I personally think OoT is great game, but there are games that are better.[/b]
Argue, convince, explain, that's what you are supposed to do, not making fallacies.
Proves that OoT is not the best game ever[/b]
No, not prove. To prove is to establish the validity of something, you've merely explained your opinion.
as there are tons of others who share this opinion[/b]
Ah, you said it, opinion...
I win.[/b]
Let's just say that you aren't modest.

o_O

10-04-2008, 07:58 PM

HOW should i convince anybody? Ok, i love RPGs, NWN is the best of them all. I think the story is excellent, dialogues are excellent. Now, what does that prove? Oh, you havent convinced me yet :)

fratey

10-04-2008, 08:00 PM

HOW should i convince anybody? Ok, i love RPGs, NWN is the best of them all. I think the story is excellent, dialogues are excellent. Now, what does that prove? Oh, you havent convinced me yet :)[/b]
It doesn't prove anything, you have merely stated opinions. But, hey, it's an improvement - now you didn't claim your opinions as facts.

o_O

10-04-2008, 08:07 PM

It doesn't prove anything, you have merely stated opinions. But, hey, it's an improvement - now you didn't claim your opinions as facts.[/b]
I haven't claimed my opinions as fact. You have.

As i have said 912839 times before, this is just opinions, nothing to make a huge debate over. Because it is just OPINIONS, there are NO facts.

fratey

10-04-2008, 08:11 PM

I haven't claimed my opinions as fact. You have.[/b]

Ok ok. Crysis is the best game.[/b]

As i have said 912839 times before, this is just opinions[/b]
Yes, you've been stating opinions.

nothing to make a huge debate over.[/b]
It worked for other people - why not you?
Hey, dude, look at the thread title.
it's not like the topic deserves a huge debate; it's that this thread is meant to hold debates, no matter what the topic is.

Because it is just OPINIONS, there are NO facts.[/b]
There are always facts, but I don't think you're proficient enough in debating. Perhaps you're better at soccer?

o_O

10-04-2008, 08:16 PM

"Ok ok. Crysis is the best game."
^sarcasm...?

fratey

10-04-2008, 08:21 PM

"Ok ok. Crysis is the best game."
^sarcasm...?[/b]
Sarcasm should rarely take place in debates, unless it holds reason. You've answered one of my lines now, there's about ten left.

o_O

10-04-2008, 08:28 PM

Errr, ok...

There are no facts? yes, there are some. In this debate. Because this is no longer a debate on what the best game is, but if there are facts or not in the original debate. And i mean there are none, therefore there shouldn't have been a debate.

And no, i dont play soccer.:)

fratey

10-04-2008, 08:30 PM

Errr, ok...

There are no facts? yes, there are some. In this debate. Because this is no longer a debate on what the best game is, but if there are facts or not in the original debate.[/b]
More like, you're trying to slander away from the original subject. Stick to the point, please.

And no, i dont play soccer.:)[/b]
Perhaps golf, then.

o_O

10-04-2008, 08:39 PM

Well, ok. I just dont agree with you wheter this is a subject or not to discuss... I just feel this debate would be more bashing than debating, since the only way you can debate such a topic is to express your own personal opinions...

Ok, i will be leaving this thread, if you wish. So that people who want to bash and get bashed can take over. Fair enough.

And golf is meh as well :(

fratey

10-04-2008, 08:47 PM

Well, ok. I just dont agree with you wheter this is a subject or not to discuss... I just feel this debate would be more bashing than debating, since the only way you can debate such a topic is to express your own personal opinions...[/b]
Oh, no, that's far from the only way. For, let's call it the "untrained eye", it is.

Ok, i will be leaving this thread, if you wish. So that people who want to bash and get bashed can take over. Fair enough.[/b]
It's all your choice, I'm not forcing you to take part or leave.

And golf is meh as well :([/b]
baske-
damn it.
<_<

o_O

10-04-2008, 08:54 PM

Basketball is phun ^_^

But please, don't call me a "noob" in debating. That is just a stupid suppression technique. And, this is not my first debate...:)

Oh, I forgot a game... My favourite game, actually. And if any game should be awarded the "best game"-award, it is this game. Chess. Really. Seriously. Checkmate :lol: <-- stupid joke

*leaving this thread*

Fubar

10-04-2008, 09:32 PM

the only game that stands a chance against Oot would be super smash brawl but beside that..
zelda oot > any other game

even the bugs in oot were fun. tells how perfect it was perfect

fratey

10-04-2008, 10:10 PM

the only game that stands a chance against Oot would be super smash brawl but beside that..
zelda oot > any other game[/b]
Brawl is an awesome game. To be honest, in sense of multiplayer, there's nothing as fun as sitting up with 3 or 4 friends all night brawling, which would involve massive amounts of cola, stale cheese balls, and red bulls.

Yet, it's awesome to sit up with Ocarina of Time with friends too, just that in that case, slight alcohol usage is ridiculously funny as you keep running into dead ends and keep dying and keep...

But please, don't call me a "noob" in debating. That is just a stupid suppression technique. And, this is not my first debate...:)[/b]
Oh, sorry, I just found the lack of solid discussion quite...
Oh, I forgot a game... My favourite game, actually. And if any game should be awarded the "best game"-award, it is this game. Chess. Really. Seriously. Checkmate :lol: <-- stupid joke[/b]
Chess as a computer game doesn't stand a chance to OoT. As a "real" game, though, the perspective is much different.

o_O

10-04-2008, 10:15 PM

Chess on the computer isn't very different from real chess. Chess on the computer is the most played computer game as well...:)

fratey

10-04-2008, 10:53 PM

Chess on the computer isn't very different from real chess.[/b]
Yet, most other games beat the computer game, yet it's hard when compared to the 'real' edition.

JD.

10-05-2008, 01:02 AM

What game has surpassed Ocarina of Time.[/b]

Soccer has. It most definitely has more active players, a larger global fanbase and it is captivating to watch and play.

fratey

10-05-2008, 01:13 AM

Soccer has. It most definitely has more active players, a larger global fanbase and it is captivating to watch and play.[/b]
Hey, you got me there.
How about videogame.

JD.

10-05-2008, 01:26 AM

Hey, you got me there.
How about videogame.[/b]

Hey hey, i win. You didn't ask what video game though so lets not get sidetracked away from the original statement.

Dain

10-05-2008, 02:00 AM

lol look what i found in my daily paper....

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o149/Daindestruct/IMG_1803.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o149/Daindestruct/IMG_1805.jpg

xD

JD.

10-05-2008, 03:17 AM

lol look what i found in my daily paper....

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o149/Daindestruct/IMG_1803.jpg
xD[/b]

Not the most convincing of rankings for mario galaxy, guitar hero was no way as good.

.C GFX

10-05-2008, 03:26 AM

Thats an newspaper, (mainly some people chooise), I personly hate zelda, yes I did play it... and no i did not like it
-
Some of the best games, I think passed zelda is, The Fighting games, were Ryu and thoose guys came out, mmm, and Pacman!

Thats an newspaper, (mainly some people chooise), I personly hate zelda, yes I did play it... and no i did not like it
-
Some of the best games, I think passed zelda is, The Fighting games, were Ryu and thoose guys came out, mmm, and Pacman!

fratey

10-05-2008, 12:51 PM

Hey hey, i win. You didn't ask what video game though so lets not get sidetracked away from the original statement.[/b]
You pointing out an inconsistency that merely does nothing to limit to the obvious, isn't winning a debate.

Not the most convincing of rankings for mario galaxy, guitar hero was no way as good.[/b]
Now that's a matter of opinion, but yes, Guitar Hero is overrated.

Thats an newspaper[/b]
Are you serious?
(mainly some people chooise)[/b]
What else? Are aliens supposed to choose?

I personly hate zelda, yes I did play it... and no i did not like it[/b]
Yet, you also sit with sunglasses when in front of your computer, so...
Some of the best games, I think passed zelda is, The Fighting games, were Ryu and thoose guys came out, mmm, and Pacman![/b]
"The fighting ga-"
Slow down here, we are talking about a game here, not games. I don't know what's wrong with you if you cannot comprehend what's been stated time and time over - we are talking about A GAME and not GAMES.

But perhaps you meant that all Street Fighter games surpassed Zelda? Well, then, let me put it to you this way - You have never played Street Fighter Anniversary Collection, Street Fighter Alpha Anthology
Street Fighter Alpha 3, Street Fighter EX3, Street Fighter III: Third Strike - Fight for the Futu-
Wait, I'll cut it right there since the post would be of obnoxious length if I went on.

JD.

10-05-2008, 01:19 PM

You pointing out an inconsistency that merely does nothing to limit to the obvious, isn't winning a debate.
Now that's a matter of opinion, but yes, Guitar Hero is overrated.[/b]

What does win the debate though, is stating the fact that that game has surpassed OoT.

Zach

10-05-2008, 04:23 PM

Now that's a matter of opinion, but yes, Guitar Hero is overrated.[/b]
This whole fucking thread is nothing more than you flaming your opinion, how are you not getting that through your head?

fratey

10-05-2008, 04:32 PM

What does win the debate though, is stating the fact that that game has surpassed OoT.[/b]
No, as the computer game chess hasn't surpassed OoT.
This whole fucking thread is nothing more than you flaming your opinion, how are you not getting that through your head?[/b]
You're slandering as much as in the other thread - I'm not flaming my opinion.

Zach

10-05-2008, 04:37 PM

Are you serious?

========

What else? Are aliens supposed to choose?

========

Yet, you also sit with sunglasses when in front of your computer, so...

========

But perhaps you meant that all Street Fighter games surpassed Zelda? Well, then, let me put it to you this way - You have never played Street Fighter Anniversary Collection, Street Fighter Alpha Anthology
Street Fighter Alpha 3, Street Fighter EX3, Street Fighter III: Third Strike - Fight for the Futu-
Wait, I'll cut it right there since the post would be of obnoxious length if I went on.[/b]
Example A, B, C, D...

Tbh.

Again, this is not a debate. You can not present facts in a formal manner, you are simply stating your opinion which gets you nowhere.

o_O

10-05-2008, 07:53 PM

Link, do you have any idea of how many people there are who plays chess on the internet EVERY day?

Chess is more popular than wow :L

fratey

10-05-2008, 10:46 PM

Link, do you have any idea of how many people there are who plays chess on the internet EVERY day?

Chess is more popular than wow :L[/b]
yet, Chess lacks in the aribitrary factors. Storyline, graphics, gameplay, intensity, logic, balance, teamplay, and sound.

Example A, B, C, D...

Tbh.[/b]
So, is it a newspaper or not?
Again, this is not a debate. You can not present facts in a formal manner, you are simply stating your opinion which gets you nowhere.[/b]
Pch, if I ain't formal, then you're the beelzebub of so-called 'debating'.

Zach

10-06-2008, 12:13 AM

He said chess lacks gameplay, logic, and balance. Lol.

JD.

10-06-2008, 06:38 AM

No, as the computer game chess hasn't surpassed OoT.[/b]

Wtf i didnt mention chess, i told you soccer has surpassed OoT, now please prove me wrong.

fratey

10-06-2008, 07:30 AM

Wtf i didnt mention chess, i told you soccer has surpassed OoT, now please prove me wrong.[/b]
No computer soccer game has surpassed OoT, perhaps you need details for this but...
He said chess lacks gameplay, logic, and balance. Lol.[/b]
With "gameplay" I mean "variation". With "balance", I mean that the better player will win more than 99 percent of the time. With "logic", when I posted that it seemed logical. Guess I shouldn't stay up late. :lol:

myaim

10-06-2008, 07:52 AM

I say that the glass is half full on Fridays.

JD.

10-06-2008, 08:04 AM

No computer soccer game has surpassed OoT, perhaps you need details for this but...

With "gameplay" I mean "variation". With "balance", I mean that the better player will win more than 99 percent of the time. With "logic", when I posted that it seemed logical. Guess I shouldn't stay up late. :lol:[/b]

Sorry i forgot you mentioned computer games in your opening statement, didn't you...

fratey

10-06-2008, 09:26 AM

Sorry i forgot you mentioned computer games in your opening statement, didn't you...[/b]
I redeemed myself ages ago.

Hey, you got me there.
How about videogame.[/b]

Yet, most other games beat the computer game, yet it's hard when compared to the 'real' edition.[/b]

Chess as a computer game doesn't stand a chance to OoT. As a "real" game, though, the perspective is much different.[/b]

Perhaps you shouldn't keep raging about moot points that I've talked about and correct myself through. It's like trying to rob fort knox after you spotted a mistake and they corrected it.

JD.

10-06-2008, 09:41 AM

I redeemed myself ages ago.
Perhaps you shouldn't keep raging about moot points that I've talked about and correct myself through. It's like trying to rob fort knox after you spotted a mistake and they corrected it.[/b]

Well please refrain from having flaws in your opening statements in future. After all, great debaters shouldn't make mistakes so early on into the debate, it shows they aren't as wise as they act out to be.

fratey

10-06-2008, 11:35 AM

Well please refrain from having flaws in your opening statements in future. After all, great debaters shouldn't make mistakes so early on into the debate, it shows they aren't as wise as they act out to be.[/b]
Oh wow, that's barely a flaw seeing as it's how you interpret it. Perhaps your debating is flawed as you cannot interpret the obvious. And; even if we go by the line that it was a horrendous, completely changing flaw, I still have this to fall back on;
Why? I need practice. ;)[/b]

As your flaws have basically been multiplied in comparison to mine.

JD.

10-06-2008, 12:36 PM

Oh wow, that's barely a flaw seeing as it's how you interpret it. Perhaps your debating is flawed as you cannot interpret the obvious.[/b]

My debating is evidently not flawed, as I have found a game that has surpassed OoT, proved that fact and left you changing your opening statement due to this. If you are going to present us with statements that can be interpreted in multiple ways, which you clearly did not intend to do, I believe you should think a little more about it before posting it.

And; even if we go by the line that it was a horrendous, completely changing flaw, I still have this to fall back on;QUOTE(Link :3 @ Sep 30 2008, 06:46 PM) *
Why? I need practice. wink.gif[/b]
As your flaws have basically been multiplied in comparison to mine.[/b]

I am relieved that you can acknowledge the fact that you need practice, this is evident to me anyway. You can persist in arguing this concluded debate if that is your desire, which in my opinion is a complete waste of time as you are arguing a debate of opinions. Have fun.

fratey

10-06-2008, 02:26 PM

My debating is evidently not flawed, as I have found a game that has surpassed OoT, proved that fact and left you changing your opening statement due to this.
If you are going to present us with statements that can be interpreted in multiple ways, which you clearly did not intend to do, I believe you should think a little more about it before posting it.
As your flaws have basically been multiplied in comparison to mine.[/b]
Oh, evidently, you should have known, since a good debater analyzes his... "opponents". Where did I go outside the world of video games in answers?

I am relieved that you can acknowledge the fact that you need practice, this is evident to me anyway. You can persist in arguing this concluded debate if that is your desire, which in my opinion is a complete waste of time as you are arguing a debate of opinions. Have fun.[/b]
The same to you.

JD.

10-06-2008, 02:44 PM

Where did I go outside the world of video games in answers?[/b]

Just because you didn't previously, does not mean that you didn't need to. Obviously the majority of the forum members who replied in this topic were narrow minded with their answers, whereas I on the other hand was not. Which then confronted you with a situation you didn't intend to be in, as I answered your question with enough evidence to win the debate.

The game of soccer has surpassed OoT, that fact you cannot deny. You can avoid the statement by highlighting the fact that you "intended" everyone to recognise that you meant video games, but as you didn't specifically mention that in your original statement there is no reason for my answer to be invalid.

fratey

10-08-2008, 01:54 PM

Just because you didn't previously, does not mean that you didn't need to. Obviously the majority of the forum members who replied in this topic were narrow minded with their answers, whereas I on the other hand was not. Which then confronted you with a situation you didn't intend to be in, as I answered your question with enough evidence to win the debate.[/b]
nonono, don't misunderstand. There's a difference between 'narrow minded', and 'taking obvious things into account'.

The game of soccer has surpassed OoT, that fact you cannot deny. You can avoid the statement by highlighting the fact that you "intended" everyone to recognise that you meant video games, but as you didn't specifically mention that in your original statement there is no reason for my answer to be invalid.[/b]
And I have acknowledged your answer time and time over, just that you keep pushing it. We get it, you did a good job pointing out a flaw and I thank you for that. That's no reason, however, to keep trying it and see if it gets through with one thing.

This subject is over with - now for subject 2

Gay marriage
gogogo, you start and I'll catch up.